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Engineer What will make engineers the most awesome battle frame?

Discussion in 'Battleframe Discussion' started by neogeo, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. #1
    I really like the idea of the engineer battle frame. If our suspicions are correct then hopefully we will see a new area under battleframes for engineers soon.

    I would love the idea of actually being able to fortify a city with engineers. Red 5 advertises the game as being a "Persistent World" - in other words you might actually be able to make an impact as opposed to just doing quests but nothing ever changes (like mainstream mmorpgs). Here is what I would love to see engineers be capable of:

    Imagine you can actually build turrets (like the one we see in the last game-play trailer, but automatic) on the city walls. The turret actually shoots kreeps if they appear and kills are accredited to you, you and your turret can get XP from this.

    Or maybe even just being able to build actual structures in the world (like ultima online). Lets say for example you can build a lookout tower near your city and man it with turrets - to auto-defend the area.

    Best of all, what if you could actually build a city! Start with base defense like turrets. Then build walls, and slowly move towards having shops, landing zones etc.

    If they can really make the world persistent in this super real-like sense, it will be awesome! :cool:

    PS. There is another thread discussion for engineers, but they discuss the engineer by itself more - I would like to focus on engineers "in the persistent environment" on this thread.

    Post edited: (thread updates)
  2. #2
    Cool idea, but when the engeneer can build cities, the map will be full with cities.
    One way is when an Army only can build 1 city
  3. #3
    Hey that will make it very interesting. Good point - I am pretty sure that if something like this will be possible then the dev team will make it very balanced. So you probably wont be able to build your own city - as it will be expensive as hell. So Armies will have to put their crystite together to build a basic outpost for example. And your Army (and engineers) should have reached a certain high level before being allowed to build certain stuff.
  4. #4
    I think the same
  5. #5
    If cities are available, they should be earned/researched through the Army tech tree.

    Though I wouldn't have a problem with engies maintaining already researched equipment.
    • Like x 1
  6. #6
    Another thing that will be awesome - seeing as we already have custom built cities: Custom built vehicles. Sure you will start with some base vehicle - buggy, bike, hovercraft - but then the direction you take the vehicle is up to the engineer. Add turbo boosters for speed - machine gun turrets for offense, extra plating armor for defense, extra seats etc. Red 5 can also make some money out of this, making certain non-impacting items (like paint, flags, spoilers etc) buy-able at the cash shop.
  7. #7
    Good point - I think its fine for the engineer to build stuff already researched by his/her army.
  8. #8
    Good idea
    When the engeneers can build vehicles and sell them to get money is cool too
    • Like x 1
  9. #9
    I agree with Neogeo this is a damn Cool Idea. it will have to be managed and limited in some ways to prevent the whole world from being covered by cities.

    One way to to limit the city building can be to make the techs only available to BIG armies (100 or more) and then techs need to be researched in order to build any buildings or tools like adding walls to a city or Turrets! Tis tech will be researched and bought by the army and obviously building costs.

    Something like a buying able to add a garage to the base where vehicles can spawn / be modified / bought. this is an awesome idea Neo there are lots of directions it can go.
  10. #10
    I liked this idea, up until I saw 'Buildable cities'... My opinion of buildable cities is based upon my experiance of Anarchy Online, and I can say that they are not a good thing. Now, from what I am hearing it is possible for critters to overrun cities and take them over, so I think we should build work from there: It should be possible for Engineers to rebuild overrunned NPC cities that were retaken by humanity.

    However, Buildable and ownable cities just has too many problems: You have the problem of too many clans wanting cities and not enough plots, you have the problem of someone buying up all the plots for themselves, and in the end, the Anarchy Online cities added absolutly nothing to the game experiance. Rarely did anyone hang out in player controlled cities, and nobody ever went to them unless they wanted to farm aliens.

    It is just one of those ideas that were great on paper, but ended up being a complete nightmare in reality.

    Finally, it does not even add anything to the Engineer experiance. As an Engineer, I want to be airdropped to the middle of hostile territory and slowly build up a firebase of turrets, teleportation devices, healing stations, recharge stations, ammo stations, repair stations, inventory stations (for those familiar with tribes), walls, forcefields, sensors (Does anyone else miss the Pulse and Motion sensors from Tribes?), and such. This firebase would then be used by allies to defend or attack various objectives. I have no interest in being recruited into a guild, and then once a month being asked to 'build a shop' or 'repair that wall', or stuff like that. Engineering cities in Anarchy Online was utterly boring.
  11. #11
    The idea of "player run" cities/outposts sounds great, but the concerns raised are valid. The outposts would have to be limited to certain army sizes and tech levels and only a single outpost per army as mentioned, otherwise the world might be overrun. I remember Ultima Online and the experience of player run cities in the game and when managed correctly it was awesome.
  12. #12
    The problem is that it would be almost impossible to manage, Anarchy Online also had city ownership limits, but that hardly stopped people from just creating a hundred ghost guilds with five hundred alts to manage all their properties (Yes, people actually did this in Anarchy Online). Especially since Firefall is free to play.
  13. #13
    Comparing Anarchy Online with Firefall is BLASPHEMY!!!

    Like said before, the outposts would have to be EXTREMELY expensive and require a large army with it researched via army tech with players of a certain "level". Not something that could be aquired via "ghost armies".
  14. #14
    ...and it would be heresy to refuse to criticise.

    Still, even if there were proper limits in place, multiple ownership issues (even with ghost guilds someone will go through the effort of powerlevelling a hundred alts just to own multiple cities), supply and demand, and the fact that five hundred cities plopped all over the place being just plain ugly are still issues.
  15. #15
    I don't really mind how Red5 decides to implement "a persistent world" be it buildable cities or the like, as long as you actually do have a real impact on the world I'll be very happy. Details are so scarce on the mechanics at this stage that I suppose anything is pure speculation. It must be very difficult to implement and balance persistant world mechanics. Think about all the variables involved. The amount of players playing at any given moment, their skill levels etc just for a start. I suppose that's why we don't really see this in other mmo games. I hope they can pull this off... :)
  16. #16
    As I posted, think more in the line of outposts and not cities. Outpost, as in one or two small buildings with a respawn/spawn point. Not over 9000 buildings with pink walls and bright orange doors. There could also be limitations on where they could be placed, etc etc etc. It should also be a milestone to actually build one. It should take months of effort by several army members, not every single person who's been playing a week should be able to create one.

    This is of course all just hypothetical and not worth it to get into a large flame war where we start wishing bodily harm to each other and our immediate families.
    • Like x 1
  17. #17
    If an outpost with a forge and respawn/spawn point is all you are asking for, it would be better to simply just give the Engineer abilities for temp structures that do the same thing and not have to deal with the headache of permanent, persistant structures in the first place.

    Given, I understand your point of view, the idea of a clan or guild owning permanent structures does sound really really awesome, but the idea overall has a lot of problems that I am not sure can be overcome.
  18. #18
    I agree with gideonernst - I think this can be managed, and can turn into a prestige milestone of sorts for armies
  19. #19
    You have a valid point, but this is where difference of opinion comes in. Being a programmer myself I'm fully aware of the headache created by the end-user. Like I've said several times, the ability to create such an outpost should be a milestone that requires a lot of "money" and time and cooperation, meaning that there would never be hundreds of them. More in the line of a couple of dozen after months, which would hardly be overcrowded in a large enough world.

    Ultima Online also tracked the activity of the owners of buildings and the building fell into ruins and disappeared eventually if it wasn't occupied and used enough. With enough safeguards I'm pretty sure that the minds behind this potentially great game would be able to pull this off. But once again, this is all hypothetical and wishful thinking.

    Oh and just FYI, we've gone completely off-topic now. The thread was originally about Engineers and now it's turned into "player run/built" outposts. The idea is awesome and Engineers would play a roll in my opinion, maintaining and upgrading the existing "parts" of said outposts. So far, we've only heard from one or two people. I'd be interesting in hearing more opinions and why this could/couldn't work.
  20. #20
    Um... you do realize that anyone and everyone can just switch into the engineer battle frame and it's not restricted by class. If your going to be building cities putting on your engineer hat seems like an unnecessary step.