Recon Solution for PvE and PvP useless Recon frame...

Discussion in 'Battleframe Discussion' started by [p42]p0wd3r, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. [p42]p0wd3r Commander

    Ok, so the last round (pre-milestone), everyone complained about getting sniped so the Recon was nerfed, then all the Recon players used that frame less because it became difficult to be useful. Then the speed boost happened, again the lightest frame with the lowest health got the shaft, out-pacing only the Dread, while the Assault and Medic frames got a boost, making it even harder to 3 headshot kill them. So, since this milestone is now here, and it was a PvP focused element, this is what I think would solve all the issues about the Recon power in PvP and the worthlessness of the Recon in the PvE area.

    Make the primary weapon do at least 100% more headshot damage, and impose a 50% reduction in PvP mode.

    My Recon secondary machine gun can take down a terror claw in about 1/4 the time it takes me to headshot it to death. I have a 4 round clip, a 2 second reload, and a 1 second delay in shots. Not to mention the impossibilities of landing headshots on most of the NPCs because what you think is the head just isn't, and you never know if there is an invisible rock in front of you/them. When I'm scoped, I can't see the bug that is shooting splooge at me, which drops my health by 30%, and if there are more, I'm toast. I feel like the sniper rifle, like in nearly every other FPS game I've ever played, should kill the target if it is a crit hit. I understand that PvP players hate getting sniped and rage quit over that, so cut the power down while in PvP and that takes care of that. I shouldn't have to use 1 entire clip on a low level chosen, when I could switch to my secondary weapon and kill them in half the time with half the effort. Any other frame has a primary weapon that is outstandingly powerful, even the Biotech's boba-fet blaster clone can do more damage more quickly...

    Also, change the LRM back to a proximity type, the extra keystroke to detonate is lame, especially when running away...
    • Like x 7
  2. #2
    I really like the advice in this post. I am constantly frustrated by the DPS of my sniper rifle compared to my secondary weapon, and this seems to be an elegant solution.

    One question: how would the DPS change/not change during duels? In my experience, it can be difficult to maintain a long range in a duel, thus incapacitating the Recon. I would recommend keeping the DPS up during a duel

    I disagree concerning the LRM, I prefer the current detonation method. I find it very useful to take out the maximum number of enemies at one time. However, there should be a way to know if you have the mine planted or not, at the moment I will occasionally plant a mine a ways back and forget to detonate it.
  3. Ced23Ric War Smith

    Skill-based LRM is way more controlled and ambushy. Don't know how to use it? Learn how. You can even detonate it in-flight, for pretty cool airkills. Don't know how? Refer to step #1. As for Recon & Terrorclaw, Giant Melding Spawnling, My Mother on a Rampage or The Hillgiant and other endlessly high HP mobs ... not your task in PvE.

    Recon hits mid-range mobs and either kills them outright or damages them so much, that other people can swipe them away. Alternatively, Recon uses LRM and/or Reso Bolts to clear out oncoming packs and clustered up mobs. He keeps the table clear so the rest can do their parts. Recon does overwatch, pinpoint spikes and maintains target awareness, supervison and acts by priority.

    I have now put a considerable amount of effort into the class and I have to say, it is potentially the most lethal out of the four I have - Assault, Engineer, Biotech, Recon. Dread follows tomorrow. No other class can rival the Recon in his threat bubble. He can deliver 1200++ damage to targets that are more than 350m apart, without trouble, moving or even getting endangered himself.

    Recon is hard to master, maybe. But it's far, far from useless. It's a very vaiable and strong frame in the right hands.
    • Like x 3
  4. [p42]p0wd3r Commander

    LRM is another issue. If you fire it and spam the button you will sometimes launch a second one that you have to wait ~30 seconds to explode, then wait another ~30 seconds to be able to launch another one. I'm getting used to the extra keystroke to splodie that, I'm about at a mute point on that one. I guess they could make it an optional ability to have it the old way or the new. I miss PvP matches where I drop my LRM just before I die, and the executor gets a surprise when they go for the extra XP. :p

    I do disagree with you there Ced23Ric, but not fully. The Recon is a deadly force, no doubt. But with ~2 seconds between shots, that is enough time for any number of enemies to change position and come for you or whatever. Knowing that it will take 2 or more perfectly placed rounds to down most enemies makes it so you cannot just camp and snipe, so your 350m apart without moving is out of the window (especially if there is no real way of figuring out where the head is...). And 32 round capacity, means you have the option of taking out 20 or so creeps, out of the 200 that spawn while thumping, before you have to stop, call down ammo, or run in and collect some.

    The damage on the primary weapon is so low, you have to headshot even the weakest bugs to kill them, and it isn't easy unless they are running right at you. And you have to zoom in to even have a chance, and run the risk of losing your target, or finding that it is already jumped over/at you and you have to move and aim again. And you have to do this constantly, so again, no sitting, waiting for the perfect condition and kill. I do more damage with my secondary weapon.

    I'm not arguing PvP here, at all. If people want to cry about getting shot in the head and dying from it, then that is fine. I feel that the recon is worthless in PvE as it stands now because you cannot do enough damage fast enough to be helpful to a team. If you want to get up close, you have to use your stronger secondary weapon, making the sniper rifle that much more useless. I'm not going to run from a terror claw because that "isn't my task", I'm going to shoot it until it dies so it doesn't kill my thumper. It just so happens that it takes a recon 15 seconds to headshot one to death, where it takes nearly any other frame 5 just spamming bullets at it, not having to take time to aim...
  5. Souperior Holmgang Champion

    Not sure if srs.

    I enjoy playing recon in PvE and in PvP. I pretty much main recon. The only other class I have even really played is assault. I've been playing recon 99% of the time since day 1 of beta ~9 months ago.The recent HS damage increase was uncalled for as well as the recent increase in projectile speed. The recon is pretty stupid easy to use now and I would say it is heading towards borderline OP. If you don't like the way the recon plays in PvE, or even PvP, you are free to play another class that fits your playstyle.
  6. [p42]p0wd3r Commander

    I'm happy that you are happy with the class, like the other guy is. But don't be a douche and say "you are free to play another class blah blah blah...". 1% of the threads about the recon frame are saying it is too easy to use, the other 99% state the opposite. My apologies for not having the twitch skillz of the competative douche nozzle jackasses that spam the devs with bug reports because they're getting sniped when they think they should be the ones at the top of the score board.

    I'm not playing this game to impress my friends, I'm playing this game to have a good time. I like the sniper class, I play nothing else, even since the beginning, only recon. Now I level up to a new tier and I lose all of the progress that I've made since I completed the first tier. That is lame! Why should I step up to another level, only to be dropped back below the bottom of the first level? Now I can't even kill the weakest of the weak bugs with my high powered rifle unless I land a ridiculously accurate head shot. Sure, I can switch to my machine gun, or shoot out an LRM, but why should I have to? For the pussies of the pussies, I have to use something else other than the gun I was designed to use. All other frames can take out the entire mob in a few spam clicks, I'm left with running away, or switching weapons and hoping they drop some ammo.

    Gets annoying to get used to a certain damage level, then get bumped down all the time because league players think FF should be an eSport...
  7. Souperior Holmgang Champion

    Those statistics! Lmao. What makes you think they are league players? I am here for a competitive shooter and I'm not going to let bad players **** balance up because they can't hit the side of a barn lol. If you think we are "douche nozzle jackasses" then good for you. You should see the pointless and stupid crap the carebears post that doesn't make ANY DAMN SENSE. Landing headshots in PvE isn't hard, the mobs don't move too much. They said they are working on fixing the tiers and are trying to rebalance tier 2 because of how big of an advantage you get over others towards the end of tier 2. Each player will have his own reason for playing the game. Maybe the game isn't for you? The recon is a twitchier class and it will most likely stay that way. It is a very rewarding class for players with good aim. It is very effective in PvE especially for tornadoes and chosen incursions.
  8. [p42]p0wd3r Commander

    There you go, inviting me to leave the game again. You offer nothing constructive to the mass of players that say the recon is nerfed in PvE, you can check the posts all you want, it is all there. All you say is "it's easy for me", and I'm happy for you. However, most others don't agree with you, and you will need to just come to terms with that. You aren't the only one here, and you represent a very small portion of "satisfied" Recon players, and I can't even tell if you are satisfied...
    • Like x 1
  9. #9
    Grummz has said that Recon will be getting some PvE love, be patient.
    • Like x 1
  10. Souperior Holmgang Champion

    I am not inviting you to do anything. I was just stating that you may be waiting for something that won't happen. I am not satisfied with recon. YOU are also not the only one here. You have to realize that a lot of us are here for the competitive side of the game. A lot of competitive players won't even touch Firefall until they see that it is a competitive game. A lot of players don't agree with YOU and the other PvE players that don't have the aim to play recon at a higher level. All YOU say is "It's hard for me" and I'm sorry to hear that, but that doesn't mean recon needs any "buffs". I myself feel recon is currently OP in a sense because of how much easier they are trying to make it. You try to point out flaws in my arguments but I can easily turn those right back at yours. Just because the "bigger" group says something doesn't necessarily make it right. Too many games get ruined that way because the Developers **** the more hardcore/competitive players because the casual players can't compete at a certain level or they can't do something. WoW is a great example. Vanilla WoW had amazing and challenging raids/dungeons. Casual players started to whine that it was "a lot of work and took a lot of time" to get through some of these raids/dungeons. The game was OVERSIMPLIFIED with each new expansion. This scared away a good portion of the more "hardcore" players. This happens with a lot of games. Red5 is attempting to balance it out so that both sides can be pleased. Some say that is impossible, but Red5 will attempt to get it as close as possible to the middle of both groups.
  11. [p42]p0wd3r Commander

    Good to hear! Thank you!
  12. [p42]p0wd3r Commander

    That's funny, cuz all you say is "don't play the recon", or "this game isn't a good fit for you", etc... I don't know how to read that, other than simply "leave". You can get as creative with the wording as you like, but the message will still be the same.

    As for the competitive gamers, if you want my opinion, they ruin games for the masses. Look at DoTA, it is hard to want to play a game when the seasoned vetrans are constantly telling you how bad you're screwing up and to leave the match. Look at Counter Strike, full of whiney assbags that complain that 1.5 is better than 1.6, or vise versa. If Red 5 wants to make an esport game, they should do that, but an MMO has no place in esports because there are way to many people that don't want to be part of the competition. This is an MMO, and it can't be tuned to a skill set of gamers that have time to hammer out a second full time job worth of game time week after week. To be honest, if Firefall shifts to a competitive shooter geared toward gamers that follow that direction, I'll just find another game to play, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that idea.

    What turned people away from WoW wasn't the shift to mass approval, it was Blizzard going after more money, and requiring daily missions that people just couldn't keep up with. They got tired and bored of doing the exact same thing, over and over. When you get bored of a game, and when it turns into something you have to do, you find another game.

    I know the division of the competitve gamers and the casual type is a wide one, but the problem is that if you want to make a game make enough money to keep going, you have to please the larger side of that divide. The largest side is the casual gamer that can dump around 10 hours per week into a leisure activity. If you go to the smaller side, you are left with a financial burden. If Red 5 can make it work for both sides, then that will be an amazing feat indeed. I know people that are extremely talented in any game they touch, but I know a lot more that are average at best. In the end, the average gamers were the ones that showed up at the LAN parties the most often, and they were the ones that made them possible. The tournament players that were after the prize represent such a small group, it was barely worth it to put up with them. They made hosting the LAN parties more work than it was worth for me because they complain about everything until they get their way. This is my experience with the competitive gamers, which may not be the same for others. After 7 years of hosting montly 200+ person LAN Parties, I gave up because it just wasn't fun putting up with the players any more.

    To each their I own I suppose, I'll continue playing the Recon, even if I think it is nearly worthless. That is my choice, and I hope Red 5 realizes that nerfing the recon because a select few loud competative gamers think a sniper shouldn't be able to kill them when they are standing still and getting shot in the face, is a bad idea.
  13. #13
    go play tribes. that's way more skill based than firefall's pvp. or is tribes "too" skillbased? ;)
    • Like x 2
  14. Souperior Holmgang Champion

    Tribes was skill based, Ascend was CoD on ice. I prefer games like GA and Firefall. I am here for the PvP, you aren't. Quit bitching and wait for PvE. All I see from you is bitching about how terrible you think PvP is because you get stomped over and over. If you don't like the PvP why are you playing it!? I don't like some of the PvE stuff they have so I don't touch it. Its simple....

    Firefall isn't an "MMO". They have been saying that it "ISN'T IN AN MMO" since they first announced it. It is a skilled based shooter at the core. Morons come on here and are expecting a PvE focused game when Red5 keeps saying that if you are expecting days and days of quests and what not you are waiting on the wrong game. PvE will be focused around dynamic events and thumping.

    The "larger" side won't put more money into it... Most of that side is full of younger kids that probably won't spend a dime on the game. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. PvE Carebears ftw ;) I see more asshats on the PvE Carebear side than I do on the competitive side. They feel each game has to fulfill some special PvE requirement list or the game sucks.
  15. #15
    mimimimi. good ole souperior like we know and love. :) no offense, but actually, you have no ******* clue. that's all what i say about it. someone else may correct all the misinformation in your post.

    edit: i say one thing though...
    about tribes ascend and cod
  16. #16
    i really like having seperate pvp and pve stats on important things.
    having CC be stronger in pve than in pvp makes sense because it's more important, same with aoe.
    pvp you want to take down the person in front of you asap so it doesn't continue killing you and it deals high damage very quickly.
    pve there's lots of small things with low health and damage so you get rid of those with aoe as fast as you can so you can focus on the stronger things.

    higher fire rate for pve would be a great way to fix that if not for the fact you can get those on your own. then you decide to focus on damage to make up for it, with mild success. then you try a different class and get annoyed at how much more difficult it is for recon. but some people realize that sniper bullets do line damage not just stop at the first impact and therefor get in real close and time our shots so as to hit multiple targets and requires a focus on rapid fire instead of damage. but then recon has very little aoe damage and has great single target burst so using it for pve is really inefficient and doing so is your choice.

    i do believe it needs an alteration but a straight buff might not be right. the split buff nerf thing suggested would probably work for just the sniper but the other branch of the tech tree would get the shaft hard across the face for it. i would say just making the special aspects more extreme would be enough. more CD reduction on omni stuff etc. instead of 10 second reduction on satchel maybe try 12 - 14. but then maybe i should remind people that's what the crafting in T2 is for and to hold back complaints until you try it.
  17. Souperior Holmgang Champion

    Congrats ;) You found a video of people in Ascend pub matches. In any competitive match everyone just focuses people down with ARs/SMGs. Spinfusors are not viable. Please point out the misinformation. I'd love to see it. All I see is PvE bitching from you carebears when Red5 has made perfectly clear what they have planned for PvE and what they don't have planned for it.
  18. #18
    you still don't know what you're talking about. you compared tribes to cod and i showed you a video that prooves otherwise.

    oh, and also, you just insulted a whole bunch of people that are more eagerly looking forward to pve content than any pvp stuff whatsoever. in fact, a lot of people came here for the "mmo" experience and red5 must recognize this.

    however, the plans that are so perfectly clear about pve, where are they? isn't the plan, like, add stuff based on community feedback? instanced dungeon types are totally possible. didn't you watch the wtf is... firefall from gamescom 2011 by totalbiscuit? this is some of the misinformation i was mentioning. so, i don't really get your point. i think i just hurt your ego with my first post and you suddently start to mimimi like a little child.

    so, what's your point anyways? tribes is less skill based than firefall?
    • Like x 1
  19. Souperior Holmgang Champion

    My point is that you keep bitching about PvE content when Red5 keeps saying they are working on it this milestone. They said they are NOT making PvE quest based. They are working on Dynamic Events and thumping. I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying Ascend is a failed tribes game which is why top players like Projectile and his crew came over to Firefall. They made skill shots like the spinfusor midairs completely pointless to attempt because Assault Rifles and SMGs were the only weapons you really needed to have. I didn't say instanced dungeons weren't possible. In fact, a lot of players came here for the "competitive" experience and red5 must also recognize this. They are working on creating a fun PvE experience for those that want it BUT THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING SINCE DAY 1, THIS IS NOT YOUR TRADITIONAL MMO! Thats why they didn't want to call it an "MMO" because morons would come and complain about the lack of quests and such that they see in MMORPGs. PvE players feel that Red5 should focus on PvE while the PvP players feel Red5 should focus on PvP. They are trying to do both and people will continue to bitch and whine like we are doing in this thread. Congrats on hurting my ego. I am competitive and I like winning. Thats how I have fun in games. You prefer to kill mobs. We have different playstyles, but when you feel that PvE is more important than PvP then you don't listen to anything Red5 is saying.... I would still call Firefall a VERY early beta. Things will change. I'm not trying to be an ******* but when that moron up there posted that competitive players are "asshats" I easily pointed out how he was being an "asshat" himself. PvE players feel just as self-entitled as PvP players. They feel they are "the majority" in a community and deserve the attention of the devs. You're a cool guy zzorn and you have some points but you have to see that just because the "majority" of players CURRENTLY playing are waiting on PvE doesn't mean Red5 has to drop all PvP and focus on PvE. They are working on PvE for this milestone and they will continue to add onto it even as they work on PvP content.

    Tribes Ascend was a great "fun" game but I wouldn't call it competitive at all because HiRez lacks one very important thing.... THEY IGNORE THE COMMUNITY. They focus on making money and don't give 2 shits about the casual or even the competitive gamers. They turned Global Agenda into a cow and are milking it for as much money as they can get out of it before the last 200 players completely quit. Tribes Ascend is also slowly starting to lose popularity. SMITE is pretty popular right now but if HiRez continues to do what they did with their other games it will slowly begin to fall as well. Red5 is trying to listen to both sides and its trying to create a game for both sides to enjoy. You can't start bitching "OMG TOO MUCH OF DAT PVP ESPORTS" or the other way around. They are not a big company and they are doing their best.
  20. #20
    never did i bitch about pve content. i stopped reading there. good night. how old are you anyways?
    • Like x 1