Firefall Forums

Resources, Leveling, Thumping, and You. (GUIDE)

Discussion in 'Crafting & Resources Discussion' started by Skeithg, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. Skeithg Bird of Prey

    Before read on or view the spreadsheet, you MUST read THIS POST.

    1. Theorycrafting the Spreadsheet
    2. Analysis of Leveling Nodes
    3. Experience and Resources

    Theorycrafting the Spreadsheet
    I've done a fair amount of research through theorycrafting and community feedback and I have found the current methods of obtaining resources, how they perform, and what the data all means (currently). With all this knowledge, I put it into a spreadsheet so that everyone could at least see my work in progress. There are of course sections I have yet to complete (such as Accord Merit Points and XP). So is it the final version? No. Is it 100% professional? Hell no. Will I continue to work on it? Somewhat, but that's where I'd love to see developers and the community throwing in what they know. For me this is the first spreadsheet that I've ever shared with the public, so don't be overly critical. I'd like to see constructive feedback, positive or negative.

    What I'd really love to see is a more broad understanding of the crafting, resource, and experience system with all players. Every day in zone chat there are things said that just flat out make me cringe, so I've rushed this spreadsheet out since I now have the important part of the work done. With this work, I hope that some of the knowledge makes it down the line and everyone is at least a little less bitter about the changes.

    With all that aside, there are some interesting things that fall out of the mathematics of thumpers, such as Advanced Squad Thumpers used on melding nodes actually yield more resources than an Elite Squad Thumper. This is one of the things that I outline, and I find it quite interesting. I even included a "Hierarchy" of the thumpers, ignoring any split resources for personal thumpers. With that you see every step of the process which I used to determine what was the "best" thumper under certain circumstances, including how many resources you get from each thumper, how many resources you gain per hour, how many hours it will take you to reach the required number for all of the nodes in one row for leveling a frame, and so on.

    As stated previously, there are some works in progress on the other parts of the sheet itself. These include the Accord Merit Points section, which does have some useful knowledge, as well as the EXP sheet, which has not had any input other than my silly remarks.

    Of course, you can find the spreadsheet at the bottom of this post. I'll try to keep it updated as the updates roll in!
    To access it, just unzip the archive and click. The forums wouldn't let me upload the spreadsheet directly.
    If you'd like to request it in a different format, please leave a comment.

    Analysis of Leveling Nodes
    One of the things that bothers me in Zone and in the forums is the notion that there is such a high resource and exp requirement to fully max out a frame. Why does this bother me so much? Well this is because for almost every player these nodes should be completely unnecessary; You'll have more power, mass, and CPU than you know what to do with. Generally, you will be hard pressed to max out your constraints even without the three legendary nodes because unless you make BiS (best in slot) gear (which will have a much more dramatic effect on your constraints), you should be fine. If you do make many items like this, it is reasonable to think that you will max constraints with ease in the future, but currently this is not so. With proper crafting, you will likely never need the legendary nodes, and sometimes not need many of the preceding rare nodes. To specify what I mean by this, you simply max only the constraint you want (e.g. best damage per round), then use junk minerals (such as <Q250) to craft the parts you don't care about. This lowers the constrains SIGNIFICANTLY. If you use <Q50 for constraints you don't give a damn about (In my case for Dreadnaught this would be max ammo) then the constrains are lowered even more significantly, and the item becomes a lot less of a headache to use. Sure you have a little bit less max ammo, but with the drop rate of ammo is that really as important as damage, rate of fire, and radius? Of course each class is different, and will answer that question differently, but you all should understand my point by now.

    There is a point of contention with me though, and one I feel very strongly about; Personally I think the costs of getting into the specialty frames are incredibly high. For new players this will be quite frustrating that those who came before them have a free ride in comparison to what they need to do in order to even unlock 3 specialty frames. Even though I have access to every frame I care about (all but raptor and electron), I still feel for those who don't have as many frames as I do, because they have to spend a lot of time and resources to get into these specialty frames. I find the rest of the requirements outside of the normal frames agreeable, but it's nearly game breaking that a new player will have to grind just as much as I do for another node, not so they can get directly stronger but to instead get a better frame.

    While it may not be that huge of an upgrade to have a specialty frame, it's still a new players goal, a goal that will quickly look unreachable. Just to get 6 tokens out of one frame requires this new player to get 849k exp and 30k of one specific mineral. Across all 5 base frames, they'll only have enough tokens to purchase three frames. If you continue the pattern of earning 6 tokens for every frame you won't have enough tokens to do anything with at frame 11 and there will still be 4 frames left to unlock. This means you HAVE to go back and get more nodes in the rare section, which have even higher requirements. This is after spending a whopping 9,339,000 exp and 990,000 materials. At this rate the player will have spent about as much time (if not more) getting just to this point than I have played entirely. The minimum number of hours just getting the materials through an Elite thumper (which they may not even get invited into) will take at least 100 hours of gameplay. Think about that number for a moment. I've played Skyrim for 273 hours and D3 for 269 hours, which were two of my most played games for the past 3 years. So to get to this point they have had to invest more time than I have invested into most games, or about half the time I will invest into I game that I absolutely love, and still not even be halfway done. Still 4 more frames, still all the other rare and legendary nodes. More thumping, more grinding. This is NOT what a new player should feel like they have to do.

    Experience and Resources
    Now that I've finished my rant, I'd also like to talk about gaining experience and resources. Currently the ratio (including the legendary nodes) between EXP required and minerals required is 3.85:1. I'd like to point out that either the experience needs to go up, or the resources need to go down (with our current model). This is because just for sending up a thumper you're looking at a range of 1000-1800 experience, without accounting for any mob experience. If we did take mob experience into account, the experience per thumper would at least double. This means that you may be getting 401 of your mineral but 2600 experience (these are my tested values from stock personal melded thumping). This ratio is not the 3.85:1 as seen before, but instead 6.5:1. Even if you forget that there are other things to do in firefall, with current methods you are actually garunteed to have 1.7x more experience than you need. Again, this is the conservative estimate as you are doing nothing but thumping your specific mineral from 0xp.

    Thankfully, Phobos said that they are already planning to address this issue in the somewhat near future. I cannot wait to see what they come up with, as it is the most critical aspect of this game currently, and it desperately needs tweaking. All I can do is hope that R5 realizes the disparity between resources and experience and introduce proper systems that eliminate, or possibly slightly overcompensate, for this currently large problem.

    Co-Authors of this project: N/A currently
    People that helped this project indirectly: Hankhell, Kaedan94, Phobos, Shinder, Nakiato, Haxsus, Virgil, Thatguy2502, Kaguya, and Cato190.
    Thank you to all of you.

    Wall of text crits you for 8,887. You die.

    Attached Files:

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  2. Skeithg Bird of Prey

    <Self Deleted, was crazy sleepy mats rant>