Recon Nighthawk or Raptor

Discussion in 'Battleframe Discussion' started by NamoBeast, May 17, 2013.

  1. #1
    Hi i alredy saw some posts about these 2 classes but it didnt took away my doubts from what i read the nighthawk does less damage comparing with the raptor but the raptor has worst abilities(or something like that), also read that the nighthawk isnt suited for pvp(the raptor is it or isnt, and the nighthawk?), i also want to know wich one has the better damage, skills for the damage, defense, evasion etc.
    Also witch is best for pvp

    thanks for the answers :)
  2. whizzbang01 Founder

    #2
    I personally prefer the Raptor because if the first shot doesn't drop a target then you can always send a couple of follow-up rounds. I would also agree that the Raptors abilities are pretty poor compared the the Nighthawk.

    I've been writing about my exploits as a Raptor here....it's been a bit of fun that's turned into a FF story.
    http://www.fftribes.com/index.php?o...isode-1-something-s-wrong&catid=12&Itemid=165

    In the meantime.....I'd try out both frames and see which one you like the best.

    -----------------------------------
    Whizzbang
    FFTribes.com
    • Like x 3
  3. #3
    didnt help at all but thanks anyway
  4. HuNtrkillR Commander

    #4
    As opposed to the Nighthawk and its "1 round 'o hurt" philosophy. I use the R36, Assault rifle, and Resonating bolts
    • Like x 1
  5. NoahDVS Recon Specialist

    #5
    [Last edited on September 9, 2013: the bugs/problems that were mentioned existed in version 0.7.1710r2. If any of the bugs/problems mentioned are gone, tell me in a reply saying what version the bug was fixed so I can update this list.]

    Accord Recon:
    • The Accord Recon needs to keep moving to maximize its effectiveness, but don't let yourself become targeted by more enemies than you can handle. This applies to PvP as well.
    • Burst fire as often as you can to stay accurate. Despite the lower volume of bullets, you can actually kill enemies faster that way.
    • Never forget about your Decoy ability. It's the most useful recon ability ever, but sometimes chosen will continue to aim and shoot at you, even though they're supposed to go after the decoy. I'm pretty sure that's a bug with the AI. In PvP, enemies can tag you in SIN while cloaked, so try to break their line of sight before you use Decoy.
    • Use Cryo Grenade wisely. It's extremely helpful when used on a group of enemies that you might not be able to handle by yourself or when you have low health and you need some quick kills to activate the passive and regenerate health. In PvP, this ability can really screw anyone it hits. The snare makes it almost impossible to dodge your R36.
    • SIN Beacon useful for area denial and reconnaissance because of the damage bonus, the ability to see enemies through walls and the ability to see cloaked enemy recons. The bonus may seem small at first, but it really adds up quickly.
    • Regenerative Plating passive: who doesn't love free health? It makes the recon more gentle towards noobs (unlike the other 2 recons) and it rewards skilled players.
    • The Accord Artillery Strike HKM is a game changer when you time it well. Cryo Grenade makes it difficult to escape the HKM.
    Nighthawk:
    • The Nighthawk needs to stay hidden to maximize it's effectiveness. When stealth is not an option, the Nighthawk must rely on hit-and-run tactics.
    • You can take shots as soon as you get the opportunity with the bolt-action Sniper Rifle, but you can't always take out the tougher targets in one shot, so choose your targets wisely when you use the bonus damage from the Ambush passive or when using Execute Shot. The bonus damage from the passive also stacks with the bonus damage from execute shot. Unfortunately, there isn't a HUD indicator that shows when the bonus damage from Ambush is ready to be used. You'll just have to get a feel for when you can shoot with higher damage. Don't no-scope unless the target is very wide or very close to you. Headshots still work when no-scoping, but it has to be a pretty big head or a very close head.
    • Execute Shot does quite a nice bit of bonus damage. I think the explosion part is more useful in PvP when someone is being revived.
    • You can't survive long if you get flanked and/or swarmed, so use Smoke Screen to hide. In PvP, don't stand in the Smoke Screen because the giant cloud tells the enemy team that a Nighthawk is trying to escape.
    • You can use Long Range Charge as a trap. This really doesn't need to be said; your character even calls it a mine when you use it. If it is shot at a thumper, but is not activated until the next thumper is started, it will disappear instead of explode. I often place it near health spawns and choke points in PvP
    • The HKM is pure AoE damage; nothing more, nothing less. IMO, it's a little underwhelming since you shoot it pretty slowly.
    Raptor:
    • The Raptor needs to stick with it's team or act like the Nighthawk when going solo to maximize it's effectiveness.
    • The Charge Rifle has to charge up to be effective. Spamming slightly charged shots can kill enemies quickly if you land most of the shots, but it wastes ammo unless you do it while using Powerfield. When fully charged, it does more damage than the Sniper Rifle without bonus damage, but you can't always take full power shots when you need to and it doesn't do as much damage as the Sniper Rifle with the bonus damage. The Charge Rifle isn't worth hip-firing unless the enemy is close and has 100-200 health left. It has recoil and a small spread when hip firing.
    • Powerfield is great for you and your teammates. It gives you unlimited ammo, increased rate of fire, increased charge rate and it has a good duration, but it takes a few tries to activate after the 1st use (bug).
    • Teleport Beacon has been given a longer throwing range. It's much more useful than it used to be. It's decent in PvP because you can trick enemies by throwing the beacon in one direction, running in the other direction and activating it to appear somewhere completely different.
      • Major problems with Teleport Beacon that will hopefully be fixed:
        1. It gets stuck in tight cracks in the geometry. This can either prevent you from teleporting or make you teleport under the map.
        2. It teleports you to where the beacon was a second or so before the beacon was activated. This is terrible and makes it almost useless for climbing mountains.
    • SIN Scrambler only works in PvE when there are enemies near the scrambled target that aren't aggro'd on something else already. It's not very effective in PvP if the enemy team knows who their teammates are, but it does keep the scrambled target from getting healed by biotechs and turrets will attack the scrambled target if they aren't already attacking something else.
    • The Overload HKM is absolutely devastating and even better when used with Powerfield. It has a chain lightning effect that does 75 (base) damage per tick, but it seems to only work when multiple enemies are caught in the effect. Shots can be spammed with lower direct damage or charged up to the Charge Rifle's full damage while scoped.
    • The Raptor's abilities say what they do when empowered by the passive, but the Powerfield empowered effect isn't working. Unfortunately, there isn't a HUD indicator that shows when abilities can be empowered.
    • A Raptor with the R36, Powerfield, any Accord Recon abilities (besides Decoy) and Overload is a great addition to any squad thumping team.
    Alternative Recon Abilities:
    • Resonating Bolts only do 150 (base) damage each, but they can do a lot if you spam a bunch of them. The AoE is quite wide, so they're great for crowd control. You only need 2-3 of them to clear the little bugs around a thumper and each one has a cool down of only 10 seconds.
    • Proximity Response is a lot like Repulsor Blast and your character even calls it Repulsor Blast when you use it (I'm sure that's going to change). It does less damage than Repulsor Blast, but it knocks back and snares enemies. It's very useful when enemies get too close or when you want to play aggressively.
    • Like x 23
  6. whizzbang01 Founder

    #6
    WOW - Noah that was a very detailed and accurate rendition of the three recons. Many thanks for that.
    I've never really understood some of the differences in the special abilities between the different battleframes.

    --------------------------
    Whizzbang
    FFTribes.com
  7. NoahDVS Recon Specialist

    #7
    I've had a lot of experience with recons and I am only just starting to play around with the other frames, not just for the sake of getting more pilot tokens this time.
    • Like x 2
  8. #8
    thanks if anyone wants to post more stuff about i would apreciate it
  9. HuNtrkillR Commander

    #9
    Recon is extreamly hard to play in PvP and I would only play any kind of Recon on Shanty town unless your going to play Accord recon (R36)
  10. Kelai Skullbane

    #10
    I prefer post 0,6 patch Raptor. Before patch 0,6 I played a lot with both (more with NH). As almost all was written by NoahDVS i would like to add only one thing:
    The main why I choose Raptor is its primary weapon. I think its primaries that should at first place detemine frame choosing. Skills - there will be more of them, more changes will be made by crafting higher tiers or already existing ones. But i think (hope) the base mechnic of primaries is already solid. So while choosing frame we need to pick the primary weapon which fits our playstyle.

    I value not only dmg of fully charged shoot but also a flexibility that charge rifle gives. Small bugs - fast shoots, big one - fully charged headshoot:). And its u who decide when to pull a trigger. Lets say u fight with chooses: u dont need to wait before u shoot a second one, and if the moment is right u can shoot with lets say 85% of chargeing (it will kill snipers anyway). It is expecially helpfull in pvp when its offen better to hit with 85% of max dmg than let ur target run away;p
    • Like x 1
  11. #11
    wich one do is the better for pvp?
  12. HuNtrkillR Commander

    #12
    to tell the truth? Situational at best, they need a LOT more love in choice of maps. Right now Shanty Town is your best bet in maps (so explore shanty town) Raptor works wonders there but I found Smokescreen to help out quite a bit
  13. NoahDVS Recon Specialist

    #13
    The Raptor's abilities make it more of a team player than the Nighthawk, but Smoke Screen can help you live longer. You can still use your abilities to help your team as a Nighthawk because Smoke Screen can be used on teammates. A lot of the time when I'm doing incursions, I'll throw Smoke Screen at someone who is down so that they can safely be revived.
  14. #14
    Nighthawk is the worthless battleframe I have in my garage (I'm talking about PvE)

    You simply can't stay hidden. You cannot sneak up because there's no stealth aspects. And once you fire you get bunch of droids on your skin and after a short moment -- chosens. TTK ratio is low (4 bullet magazine + slow shooting ratio + reaload time) and Chosens notice you before you can say "wut?". And they can shoot you without having proper view of sight. And with the latest patch chosens are constantly on move (they run & shoot accurately @ same time in a flow) and when they move you cannot headshot them. They stay still about 0.5 sec and you have to be patient and accurate. And yes, I'm behind fibre optics with 50-60 ping. The mobs are stuttering here and there. Here's more info about the lag and stuttering:
    http://forums.firefallthegame.com/community/threads/how-do-you-kill-stuttering-monsters.295342/

    Juggernauts are accurate as the god itself and they can shoot you down from a great distance. With latest patch you can experience juggies bombarding in a rough way. With stock plating you cannot do a thing before you are R.I.P. even thought you are manoeuvring like energy bunny -- keep in mind the splash damage. And what comes for the map design of Firefall: you cannot shoot chosens from distance because there is always something between you and your target: may it be a tree trunk, leaf, rock, ground/hill, building, cloth material (high grounds + sunken harbour) -- there is always some kind of obstacle. And the corniest thing is that chosens can shoot you, but you cannot shoot them because of these obstacles.

    So you are forced to be patient or stay relatively close which means that you are in their weapon range and which means you'll likely die. In other words the range of the sniper rifles is 215m but the terrain doesn't allow you to use that distance efficiently -> higher grounds helps a bit. On the other hand open terrain means death to Nighthawk. So usually you stay 50-150m from the combat. And it doesn't take long when the chosens focus on you.

    The thing where Nighthawk shines is when you are in a squad and you see this chosen shield bubble hell. The sniper rifle penetrates the shield and kills the droid/engineer with a single shot: extremely helpful for other squad mates. And when you get a good angle, you can do double-headshots. And when you equip Ambush passive with the sniper rifle the damage output is way better.

    As a conclusion: you might want to equip R36 Assault rifle. But compared to other battleframe classes I have in my garage Nighthawk is the worst.
  15. NoahDVS Recon Specialist

    #15
    Those are the words of someone who lacks experience. I actually prefer the Nighthawk because of it's rifle and smoke screen. With a high quality stage 2 sniper rifle, I can pop heads like crazy. Sure, I could probably do more damage with a charge rifle of the same quality, but there is a point where more damage doesn't equal better performance most of the time.
    • Like x 1
  16. #16
    I knew someone would say like this: "you lack experience". It always comes to that. Than we could argue which one of us is better gamer in FF. Than we do couple rounds PVP and go mad about it.

    :|

    So, you are saying that Nighthawk battleframe is as good as any other frame? And we could add that Bastion is also as good as any other frames when it comes to solo thumping? Read: sarcasm.

    There are cons and pros regarding Nighthawk. But I'm 100% sure that with your skills you do better with other frame class regarding chosens and TTK. This is the problem. Go back in-game, fight alone against chosens as I did today with your Nighthawk. And tell your experiences.
  17. NoahDVS Recon Specialist

    #17
    I did that yesterday and it was really fun. I might add more to this post, but I want to play a little FF before I do.
  18. #18
    Now it was fun! Specially when there are fellow gamers on the servers. I usually play from 08:00 onwards (EU timezone and EU instances) and usually whole map is red. Going alone with Nighthawk against whole chosen world is challenging (eg. alone against 50+ chosens = with Nighthawk -> No Chance) and definitely different experience compared when you play @evening with friends and other people around.
  19. NoahDVS Recon Specialist

    #19
    When going solo, the trick is to isolate them because alone, they are nothing. Also, engineers are your worst enemy and Stage 2 plating with 1200-1300 HP and 4 HP/s regen is very helpful. My plating was made before 0.6.1621 though, so I don't know if you can make those stats anymore.
  20. #20
    Just unlocked my Raptor and I love it. Haven't used it in PvP yet.... But it seems logical that 12 consecutive shots even at low charge gives more damage possibility. More opportunities for consecutive headshots. Bolt Action doesn't really have anything on Charge Rifle. Teleport Beacon works amazing; way better than smoke screen (Useless PoS). Haven't used SIN Scramber, but it makes target more vulnerable to dmg, so it should be good. Powerfield is ridiculous and OP and awesome.

    Raptor > Nighthawk

    Also, a Hawk is a type of Raptor, so they should change one of the names so it isn't just a synonym.